"Buffy Was Written by Men"

[itsnotmymind]

 I made a mental promise to myself that I was going to do better at linking to posts/articles/etc. that I comment on. Unfortunately, I am going to have to break my promise. I read this awhile ago and I wasn't planning on responding, but I can't stop thinking about it.

 

Someone dismissively declared that Buffy the Vampire Slayer was written by men. Rebecca Kirshner? Jane Espenson? Marti Noxon? They don't exist, apparently.

 

And what this person was specifically objecting to? Buffy trusting Spike to look after Joyce and Dawn in Checkpoint. They didn't think it made any sense for Buffy to do that given her history of Spike up to this point. I can see the objection and will have to wait until I get to Checkpoint in my rewatch to decide if I agree or not. But Checkpoint was co-written by Jane Espenson.

 

And yes, it is true that just because something appears on the screen doesn't mean everyone in the writers' room was behind the idea. But I've never heard any objections from the female writers of Buffy about the writing on Spike in season five. In contrast, I have heard that Whedon didn't want Spike as a regular and David Fury considered Spike to be a serial killer in prison and therefore Buffy/Spike would be offensive. It's certainly possible that writers hold opinions I'm not aware of - although I've read interviews, I don't always seek them out. But I am not aware of any basis for believing that any of the female writers had a problem with that scene in Checkpoint.

 

I'm glad to have gotten that off my chest. :)

Comments

[selenak]

I agree with all of this. Not least because one of my pet peeves back in the day was that Marti Noxon isn't given enough credit for having been essentially the show runner of the later seasons once there were three Whedon created shows on air. Oh, she was blamed for what people didn't like then, alright, but not praised for what they did, Joss Whedon was. Now that the tide has turned re: Joss Whedon, it's the flipside of this - he's seen as the origin of anything bad, but the female writers (including the one who was the main showrunner during s6 and s7) are still ignored when you hear comments like this.

(Going of on a tangent, when BSG ended and its ill fated Jane Espenson headed spin-off Caprica started, I remember thinking someone should do a study of Jane Espenson as a writer, from her very early DS9 episode to her major, major contributions to BTVS (and in a slightly lesser degree AtS) to BSG , and maybe offer theories as to why when she finally was given her own show to run, it crash landed.)

I do remember David Fury catching a lot of fannish ire back in the day for his serial killers and the women who love them comment - I think for a time he must have been the most attacked of the writers! Weird that this is forgotten now in statements such as the one you quoted.

[itsnotmymind]

Yeah - I mean Joss Whedon's an asshole, I get it. That doesn't mean him being an asshole was the cause of everything you don't like about the show.

And right! Marti Noxon was the showrunner for a couple of seasons. But men wrote Buffy?

You know, I actually watched a bit of Caprica despite not having seen much BSG, and I found it intriguing but couldn't really get into it. I can see why it wasn't very successful.

I've concluded that it doesn't really make sense to view Spike as a serial killer in prison. A chipped, soulless vampire doesn't have a real world equivalent. But I can see where Fury was coming from, and I've certainly heard arguments from Buffy/Spike fans (of which, as you know, I am one) that I found offensive.

[honeymink]

Also let's not forget that Fran Rubel Kuzi directed the Buffy movie and was an executive producer on both BtVS and AtS.

Buffy trusting Spike to look after Joyce and Dawn in Checkpoint.

Here's the thing about TV shows... I thought about this recently, it's not always a cohesive thing because unlike a novel, a film or maybe a mini-series, they are not just written by one person. So while there is a certain consensus who the characters are and where they would like things to go ideally with the plot, I think every writer still brings their own interpretation to the table. And it's sometimes hard to make it a thing that is really 100% cohesive.

I can see how to some people even after... was that when she discovered the Buffybot, she was still able to compartmentalize and say, that's where my mum and my sister will be safest and he won't harm them quite the opposite. I've never been a fan of Spike as such (I mean I loved the craziness with him and Dru in season 2) but looking back at season 5 I think it was very murky... yes, he didn't have a soul but he always seemed genuinely fond of Joyce and Dawn alike. It never seemed to me as if there was only a strategy to win Buffy over.

David Fury considered Spike to be a serial killer in prison

I wonder when he said that. I mean it's also an issue that we only learn about Angel's, Darla's, Dru's and Spike's pasts in bits and pieces over the seasons of two shows.

[itsnotmymind]

Yeah I mean - the scene in Forever where Spike brings flowers for Joyce without including a card makes it pretty obvious that he did care genuinely care for Joyce and Buffy. So whether it was in character or not, Buffy was right in Checkpoint to think that she could leave Joyce and Dawn in Spike's care.

I believe David Fury said this on some message board around the time Crush aired. And in Crush, written by David Fury, Buffy herself makes the serial killer comparision (to which Spike replies, "Women marry 'em all the time!")