I would quibble that Angel's "it's not the demon in me that needs killing, Buffy, it's the man" is about him seeing himself as bad in addition to being weak.
I agree that Angel sees Angelus' capacity for evil as a part of himself, but at the time of that particular suicide attempt I thought it was interesting that he felt the need to emphasize his weakness, as opposed to Spike and Faith who emphasized their badness (with Spike even referring to himself as "a bad man" a few episodes before he tried to convince Buffy to kill him, without even mentioning his demon).
(This is not the most coherent piece of meta that I've written, because I'm saying two different things: One about the structure of redemption storylines on Jossverse shows (particularly BtVS, whose redemption storylines are less likely to deviate from the base structure), the other about parallels between Faith and Spike, and I haven't completely figured out how either of those things work.)
Which is also interesting because I would argue that outside of BTVS, both Faith and Spike aren't written as Buffy's alter egos anymore, but as Angel's.
I agree to a certain extent, but Buffy does guest star in "Sanctuary", and she and Faith have a very important scene together, so I think Faith is still acting as her alter-ego in that particular two-parter to some extent. Faith is definitely mirroring Angel, too, in that storyline, with Angel offering her the support that Darla couldn't offer him.
And one more thing: is it coincidence, or not, that both Faith and Spike have their life-after-the-big-death-moment-of-redemption not around Buffy, but Angel?
Probably not. AtS tended to have more interesting redemption stories than BtVS. Buffy never really needed redemption, but Angel did. All the various redemption stories, and failed redemption stories, on AtS could be seen as, as you said, a road not taken by Angel. Angel can relate to people seeking redemption. Buffy can't, not really.
![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
timeasmymeasure
no subject
Date: 2012-01-04 02:35 pm (UTC)I agree that Angel sees Angelus' capacity for evil as a part of himself, but at the time of that particular suicide attempt I thought it was interesting that he felt the need to emphasize his weakness, as opposed to Spike and Faith who emphasized their badness (with Spike even referring to himself as "a bad man" a few episodes before he tried to convince Buffy to kill him, without even mentioning his demon).
(This is not the most coherent piece of meta that I've written, because I'm saying two different things: One about the structure of redemption storylines on Jossverse shows (particularly BtVS, whose redemption storylines are less likely to deviate from the base structure), the other about parallels between Faith and Spike, and I haven't completely figured out how either of those things work.)
Which is also interesting because I would argue that outside of BTVS, both Faith and Spike aren't written as Buffy's alter egos anymore, but as Angel's.
I agree to a certain extent, but Buffy does guest star in "Sanctuary", and she and Faith have a very important scene together, so I think Faith is still acting as her alter-ego in that particular two-parter to some extent. Faith is definitely mirroring Angel, too, in that storyline, with Angel offering her the support that Darla couldn't offer him.
And one more thing: is it coincidence, or not, that both Faith and Spike have their life-after-the-big-death-moment-of-redemption not around Buffy, but Angel?
Probably not. AtS tended to have more interesting redemption stories than BtVS. Buffy never really needed redemption, but Angel did. All the various redemption stories, and failed redemption stories, on AtS could be seen as, as you said, a road not taken by Angel. Angel can relate to people seeking redemption. Buffy can't, not really.