And the most extreme example of Angel-and-Angelus-are-too-different-people is in AtS S4 when none of the other Fanged Four are around. (That S4 storyline is just plain weird--you have an entire show built on a guilt-ridden protagonist seeking redemption and suddenly he's saying that he doesn't need to feel guilty for the things he did without a soul? Very strange.)
Which is why I, the big season 4 fan, don't like Orpheus or the line in the subsequent episode where Angel says that. Mind you, the explanation is pretty obvious and I think Tim Minear admitted as much on the message boards back then: they didn't have the time for an "Angel processes and apologizes for everything Angelus did" episode because final part of s4, the Jasmine reveal needed to happen(remember, too, Charisma Carpenter was real life pregnant, and they were limited in the time they could still use her). Note that only two eps later when Angel is still under the Jasmine influence, we're back to the first person singular for what he sid when soulless again (in the scene where he talks about "everything I did" and she does her I forgive because I love you thing, which, given that Jasmine is the main antagonist, definitely doesn't count as a stand-in for Angel's victims).
Of course, on both a Watsonian and Doylist level the Angelus interlude in s4 is just a flashy red herring, as the Beast is, before Jasmine can move on stage, and the main emotional arc is between Angel and Connor anyway, which is not about Angel's deeds when soulless (let's not forget, Connor owes his existence to a time when Angel was souled, alright, and had his vengeful s2 interlude).
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timeasmymeasure
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Date: 2012-04-18 07:13 pm (UTC)And the most extreme example of Angel-and-Angelus-are-too-different-people is in AtS S4 when none of the other Fanged Four are around. (That S4 storyline is just plain weird--you have an entire show built on a guilt-ridden protagonist seeking redemption and suddenly he's saying that he doesn't need to feel guilty for the things he did without a soul? Very strange.)
Which is why I, the big season 4 fan, don't like Orpheus or the line in the subsequent episode where Angel says that. Mind you, the explanation is pretty obvious and I think Tim Minear admitted as much on the message boards back then: they didn't have the time for an "Angel processes and apologizes for everything Angelus did" episode because final part of s4, the Jasmine reveal needed to happen(remember, too, Charisma Carpenter was real life pregnant, and they were limited in the time they could still use her). Note that only two eps later when Angel is still under the Jasmine influence, we're back to the first person singular for what he sid when soulless again (in the scene where he talks about "everything I did" and she does her I forgive because I love you thing, which, given that Jasmine is the main antagonist, definitely doesn't count as a stand-in for Angel's victims).
Of course, on both a Watsonian and Doylist level the Angelus interlude in s4 is just a flashy red herring, as the Beast is, before Jasmine can move on stage, and the main emotional arc is between Angel and Connor anyway, which is not about Angel's deeds when soulless (let's not forget, Connor owes his existence to a time when Angel was souled, alright, and had his vengeful s2 interlude).