(no subject)

[itsnotmymind]

When I was lurking in comic book fandom—this was several years ago now—the most bashed character was not female, as often seems to be the case in the fandoms I've been involved with, but was instead Iron Man (this was shortly before his first movie, when Iron Man was unpopular from his role in the Civil War storyline, where he supported the registration of superheroes and had a secret prison in the Negative Zone that was a blatant Guantanamo Bay analogue). But here’s the weird thing, even though Iron Man was one of my favorites, bashing of him didn’t bother me much. Maybe because the worst was passed by the time I became a hard-core fan of the character? Maybe I was sympathetic towards people’s reasons for disliking the character. Maybe I’m sexist; maybe female character bashing bothers me more.

But, you see, Cable bashing bothered me a bit. Cable (son of Cyclops and Jean Grey’s clone, raised by Cyclops and Jean in the future) was another character I liked who wasn’t very popular. He was at that time in the book Cable & Deadpool, co-starring with the far more popular Deadpool (brain damaged mercenary who breaks fourth wall). People who said they only read Cable & Deadpool for Deadpool and wanted Cable gone. So maybe it’s not character bashing that bothers me. Maybe it’s *relationship* bashing. So what bothers me about Torchwood fandom is not that they bash Gwen, but that they bash her relationship with Jack. And Buffy fandom, when fans bashed Buffy *because* they like Spike, they are bashing Buffy and Spike’s relationship. The same with Yoko Ono among Beatles fans, since I am invested in both her relationship with John Lennon and her non-relationship with Paul McCartney. In complaining that Cable & Deadpool has too much Cable, they were bashing Cable and Deadpool’s relationship.

Comments

[mcjulie.livejournal.com]

I think it's bashing as a fan activity that really gets me. I don't mind negative critiques, and I don't mind one-note POSITIVE statements about a fandom or a character. But anything I would call "bashing" is usually a kind of un-nuanced, one-note negativity that I don't enjoy anyway, and which I think can really be covering up some nastiness down underneath.

I'm glad you brought up Yoko, because that is an example dear to my heart. When I first started getting into Beatles music John was already gone -- it was already a closed story -- but I was still fascinated by the historical Beatles fandom.

I could certainly understand not liking Yoko's modern conceptual art, or some of the weird noise experiments she and John were doing, or even not liking that stuff she does with her voice -- just because you don't like that kind of art. But there was a type of knee-jerk Yoko BASHING that seemed really ugly -- she was the worst, she ruined John, she broke up the Beatles, etc. And it always seemed to come from a very misogynist and racist place. Like, how dare she be an influence on John's art. How dare she be an artist in her own right. How dare he find her beautiful. How dare they be in love.

I will tolerate no Yoko-bashing!

(I still don't like The Wedding Album, though...)

[red-satin-doll.livejournal.com]

And Buffy fandom, when fans bashed Buffy *because* they like Spike, they are bashing Buffy and Spike’s relationship.

THIS is something that bothers me and puzzles me a LOT, and is one of my biggest pet peeves as a fan. (And why I tread very carefully towards fic labelled "Spuffy".) How can anyone ship two characters if they don't like (much less hate) one half of that ship? In a fandom I used to be in, Moulin Rouge, I didn't get the sense that fans hated the female lead, Satine, so much as were disinterested in her. So they focused on Christian's relationships with the other male character; there were very few fics I saw that bashed Satine outright.

The same with Yoko Ono among Beatles fans

Likewise, Weren't John and Cynthia told to keep their marriage a secret at first so as to not upset the Beatles' fanbase? I don't know how much bashing she came in for, as I haven't read the histories.

Another RL example: I was a fan of Nicole Kidman's movies for about ten years or so (and I still admire her acting.) When she started dating her current husband, singer Keith Urban, suddenly I met a lot of KU fans online - he had a huge fanbase and good rapport with his audience as many country singers do; and his fanbase was very VERY vocal, mostly middle-aged women who were very enamoured of him, which included sexual fantasies. And because their beloved was marrying someone they disliked (presumably because they wanted him for themselves?) they were extremely vitriolic towards her, beyond the usual stuff thrown her way. It was not just disliking her it was absolute seething hate.

And this is where I'm back to shaking my head - you say you're the fan of someone and you LOVE him, love his work, etc but you publicly diss his wife? How would he feel if he saw the stuff his "fans" say about her? (I personally think that souled Spike would be horrified by the things that are said of Buffy. Fuck that, soulless Spike would be horrified (mostly.)