Redemption = death?
Jan. 3rd, 2012 08:57 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
itsnotmymindThere seem to be a few requirements for BtVS and AtS characters to achieve redemption, and one of the things that all characters that achieve redemption must do is express the genuine willingness to die for their sins. Angel does it in "Amends", Faith in "Five by Five", Spike in "Sleeper" and "Never Leave Me", Anya in "Selfless", and Andrew in "Storyteller". AtS has a couple of characters with failed redemption stories (Lindsay and Harmony) who never reach that point.
The other requirement of these redemption stories is that, for whatever reason, these characters do not die for their sins, and instead must live with them, and go on to the next stage of their redemption. Darla is an odd exception--in her sort-of redemption storyline, she twice (in "The Trial", and again in "Lullaby") reaches the stage where she is prepared to die. The first time, she reverts to evil against her will. The second time, she actually succeeds in killing herself.
(And then there's Connor, but since he doesn't complete a redemption story in the course of the series, I'll leave him out of it.)
Faith and Spike both emphasize how their badness while begging for death from Angel and Buffy respectively. Faith repeatedly tells Angel that she’s “bad” while begging him to kill her. Spike tries to convince Buffy to stake him on the grounds that he is an inherently bad person, and any good he may have done is merely “window dressing”. He also describes himself as a "bad man".
Angel, Anya, Andrew, and Darla, when expressing acceptance of redemptive deaths, may have made passing references to when “when I was evil”, or similar comments, none of them went on about how “bad” they were. Angel, when attempting suicide, was more concerned about the fact that he was weak than the fact that he was bad (“Look, I'm weak. I've never been anything else. It's not the demon in me that needs killing, Buffy. It's the man.”). Anya was more concerned that she had no idea who she was (“Xander, you can't help me. I'm not even sure there's a me to help.”). Andrew merely, finally, admits what he did, and makes the connection to Jonathan's feelings while dying and his own ("And I killed Jonathan. And now you're gonna kill me. And I'm scared, and I'm going to die. And this—this is what Jonathan felt.”). Darla for her first near-death mentions nothing about being "bad", and simply concludes that her second chance is to die, "the way I was supposed to die in the first place". Her final death in Lullaby is more hopeful: She dies telling Angel that their infant son is the only good thing they ever did together. She expresses horror about their past actions, but does not seem to consider herself inherently evil.
I assume Spike and Faith's insistence on their own inherent badness has something to do with their roles as Buffy's shadow-selves. They are the evil versions of Buffy, and she is the good version of them. In some of her darkest moments, Buffy projects her capacity for evil onto them. In their lowest moments, they project any capacity for good they might have onto her, and can't see the potential of themselves.
The other requirement of these redemption stories is that, for whatever reason, these characters do not die for their sins, and instead must live with them, and go on to the next stage of their redemption. Darla is an odd exception--in her sort-of redemption storyline, she twice (in "The Trial", and again in "Lullaby") reaches the stage where she is prepared to die. The first time, she reverts to evil against her will. The second time, she actually succeeds in killing herself.
(And then there's Connor, but since he doesn't complete a redemption story in the course of the series, I'll leave him out of it.)
Faith and Spike both emphasize how their badness while begging for death from Angel and Buffy respectively. Faith repeatedly tells Angel that she’s “bad” while begging him to kill her. Spike tries to convince Buffy to stake him on the grounds that he is an inherently bad person, and any good he may have done is merely “window dressing”. He also describes himself as a "bad man".
Angel, Anya, Andrew, and Darla, when expressing acceptance of redemptive deaths, may have made passing references to when “when I was evil”, or similar comments, none of them went on about how “bad” they were. Angel, when attempting suicide, was more concerned about the fact that he was weak than the fact that he was bad (“Look, I'm weak. I've never been anything else. It's not the demon in me that needs killing, Buffy. It's the man.”). Anya was more concerned that she had no idea who she was (“Xander, you can't help me. I'm not even sure there's a me to help.”). Andrew merely, finally, admits what he did, and makes the connection to Jonathan's feelings while dying and his own ("And I killed Jonathan. And now you're gonna kill me. And I'm scared, and I'm going to die. And this—this is what Jonathan felt.”). Darla for her first near-death mentions nothing about being "bad", and simply concludes that her second chance is to die, "the way I was supposed to die in the first place". Her final death in Lullaby is more hopeful: She dies telling Angel that their infant son is the only good thing they ever did together. She expresses horror about their past actions, but does not seem to consider herself inherently evil.
I assume Spike and Faith's insistence on their own inherent badness has something to do with their roles as Buffy's shadow-selves. They are the evil versions of Buffy, and she is the good version of them. In some of her darkest moments, Buffy projects her capacity for evil onto them. In their lowest moments, they project any capacity for good they might have onto her, and can't see the potential of themselves.
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Date: 2012-01-04 03:53 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-01-04 02:42 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-01-04 12:29 pm (UTC)Mind you, a few years later when Angel and Spike have their little chat at the end of Damage about Dana and themselves, they agree that they were both innocent, "once upon a time". Which is also interesting because I would argue that outside of BTVS, both Faith and Spike aren't written as Buffy's alter egos anymore, but as Angel's. If there is a Buffy alter ago on AtS, it's Darla, only the narrative of AtS turns it around and declares Buffy to be Darla's avatar, with Darla as the original. (Not that BTVS didn't play with that a bit: Becoming opens and but for one scene closes with a blonde woman telling Angel to close his eyes before killing him/sending him to another world. But it's just an allusion there.)
Note that I don't say "shadow self" because the very premise of AtS is that Angel is his own shadow self, but Five by Five deliberately parallels Angel immediately post soul with Faith after her shattering Who are you? experience, and Spike throughout season 5 is both in a playful and a serious manner the road not taken for Angel. And one more thing: is it coincidence, or not, that both Faith and Spike have their life-after-the-big-death-moment-of-redemption not around Buffy, but Angel?
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Date: 2012-01-04 02:35 pm (UTC)I agree that Angel sees Angelus' capacity for evil as a part of himself, but at the time of that particular suicide attempt I thought it was interesting that he felt the need to emphasize his weakness, as opposed to Spike and Faith who emphasized their badness (with Spike even referring to himself as "a bad man" a few episodes before he tried to convince Buffy to kill him, without even mentioning his demon).
(This is not the most coherent piece of meta that I've written, because I'm saying two different things: One about the structure of redemption storylines on Jossverse shows (particularly BtVS, whose redemption storylines are less likely to deviate from the base structure), the other about parallels between Faith and Spike, and I haven't completely figured out how either of those things work.)
Which is also interesting because I would argue that outside of BTVS, both Faith and Spike aren't written as Buffy's alter egos anymore, but as Angel's.
I agree to a certain extent, but Buffy does guest star in "Sanctuary", and she and Faith have a very important scene together, so I think Faith is still acting as her alter-ego in that particular two-parter to some extent. Faith is definitely mirroring Angel, too, in that storyline, with Angel offering her the support that Darla couldn't offer him.
And one more thing: is it coincidence, or not, that both Faith and Spike have their life-after-the-big-death-moment-of-redemption not around Buffy, but Angel?
Probably not. AtS tended to have more interesting redemption stories than BtVS. Buffy never really needed redemption, but Angel did. All the various redemption stories, and failed redemption stories, on AtS could be seen as, as you said, a road not taken by Angel. Angel can relate to people seeking redemption. Buffy can't, not really.