Perceptions of popularity in fandom

[itsnotmymind]

I've occasionally heard it said that fans are more sensitive to hostility towards their favorite characters than they are to praise, and therefore most of us go around thinking are favorites are unpopular and our least favorites are popular, regardless of the reality. Which leads me to wonder if that's true for me.

I've noticed that that I get more upset about some criticisms of characters than of others, but it isn't always based on which character I like. For example, in Torchwood fandom, I'm quite tolerant of hostility towards Owen (as long as fans don't get nasty about his physical appearance), but I have a very low tolerance for Gwen bashing. And this despite the fact that I like Owen quite a bit more than I like Gwen. In BtVS fandom, I've been quite disturbed by the comments I've seen people make about Riley (I once saw someone describe him as "the most evil character on the show", which struck me as a little twisted), despite that fact that I don't really like Riley. But while I have more positive feelings toward Willow than I do towards Riley, I don't get nearly as bothered by criticism of her.

And sometimes I have these kinds of inconsistencies with a single character: my favorite incarnation of Spike is ambiguous Spike in BtVS S5-S6, but I don't mind it when people say unfair things about him. But say a single unfair word about my LEAST-favorite (but still beloved) incarnation of Spike, newly souled S7 Spike, and I find myself getting very defensive.

Here's a list of my favorite and least-favorite characters and pairings in each fandom, and my perception of what fandom's favorites and least-favorites are. I'm not doing my RPF fandom because deciding who qualifies as a character in an RPF fandom makes my brain hurt, as does deciding who qualifies as a fan (If you like the music but aren't interested in the biography are you still a "fan" in that fandom?).

Torchwood fandom:
Characters:
My favorites: Owen, Jack is a close second. I identify most with Tosh, but she’s not quite a favorite.
My least-favorites: I love everyone on the main team, but Gwen and Ianto are tied for last. Also, I never really attached to any of the Miracle Day newcomers (although I liked just about everyone in Children of Earth). My least-favorite recurring character is PC Andy.
Fandom’s favorite: Ianto, maybe Jack.
Fandom’s least-favorite: Gwen.
Pairings:
My favorites: Jack/Martha, Owen/Dianne.
My least-favorites: None.
Fandom’s favorite: Jack/Ianto.
Fandom’s least-favorite: Jack/Gwen.

BtVS fandom:
My favorites: Buffy, Faith, Spike are my darling pets. Oz and Cordy, also make the list.
My least-favorites: I like everyone, dammit, but: Tara, Anya, Riley.
Fandom’s favorites: Spike. Probably Oz. Maybe Faith.
Fandom’s least-favorites: Buffy, Riley, and Dawn get the most hate. Buffy also gets a lot of love, which complicates things. Oh, and Kennedy isn’t exactly Miss Popularity.
Pairings:
My favorite: Buffy/Spike.
My least-favorite: Buffy/Angel. I warmed up to them after they broke up, though. I like most pairings.
Fandom’s favorite: Buffy/Spike.
Fandom’s least-favorite: Buffy/Riley. Maybe Willow/Kennedy?.


AtS fandom:
My favorites: No consistent favorite. At various times, depending on the season, Cordy, Faith, Lindsey, Darla, Angel, Wesley, Justine, Connor, and Spike have all made the list.
My least-favorites: Probably Lorne. Fred and Gunn are pretty low.
Fandom’s favorites: I’m not as familiar with AtS fandom as I am with some fandoms, but I get the impression that the popular characters are Lindsey, Lilah, Wes, and Spike.
Fandom’s least-favorites: Again, not as familiar as with some fandoms, but yeah. Fred. Women who have the affection of popular guys are the source of all evil in the universe, aren't they?
Pairings:
My favorite: Angel/Darla.
My least-favorites: Angel/Cordelia or Cordelia/Groo.
Fandom’s favorite: Wesley/Lilah, I think.
Fandom’s least-favorite: I think Wesley/Fred.

Comments

[boot-the-grime.livejournal.com]

Getting a lot of love and hate isn't anything unique to Buffy. The same thing is true of several other major characters. I get upset by Buffy-hate so it may sometimes seem like she's more hated than she really is, but I certainly wouldn't count her as one of the most hated characters, or I would but in the group that also includes Spike, Xander and Angel, and possibly Willow, since I've seen a lot of both love and hate directed at all those characters. Spike is probably the most popular character in the verse, but there's also a lot of people who hate him, dislike him and whine how he "ruined" the show and how they want to see as least of him as possible. The only main characters who don't seem to get a lot of hate together with the love may be Giles and Oz.I suppose that people who like to point out that they "like the supporting characters more than Buffy" and the Buffy-bashing (more prominent since she's the protagonist) can make on think that she's less popular than she is, Buffy is usually the first or second most popular character in every poll and Buffy forum I know.

The really unpopular characters are Riley, Kennedy and Dawn, though they have their fans (Kennedy least so, but I know at least one person who likes her, and season 8 has made her more liked than the show).

On AtS, I'm really not sure who the most popular character is (I suppose it's between Angel, Wesley, Cordelia, and for some fans Lilah or Darla - and obviously Faith and Spike, especially when you count the people who only watched season 5 for him.

But there's no doubt who the most hated character in fandom is - Connor. Gunn is someone that people are mostly indifferent to. Fred has both fans and detractors.

I wouldn't be at all sure if Fred/Wesley is more popular or unpopular. For every fan who hates the pairing, there's another that goes ga-ga over it. It seems to be more popular than Fred/Gunn for sure. And of course, fandom's least favorite hookup is "Cordelia"/Connor.

I'm not sure why you think Lindsey is that popular? He's got his fans, but fandom's favorite?


Interesting that you say that you've warmed up to Buffy/Angel since they broke up. For me it's the complete opposite, I loved their story in seasons 1-3 (even though they were far from ideal or greatly matched couple) but it's obvious that nobody knew what to do with that relationship afterwards, and every attempt to revive it was a complete disaster and made it one of my least favorite relationships ever.

[itsnotmymind.livejournal.com]

I actually encountered some rather disturbing Buffy hate (from Spike fans) on the internet before I saw a single episode of the show, which probably influences my perspective. I've seen Spike hate, but I still feel like the default response both from most people online and from people I talk to in real life is to think that he's cool.

Well, like I said, I'm not that familiar with AtS fandom, so I might be completely overestimating Lindsay's popularity (and it probably depends on what part of fandom you hang out in, anyway).

I don't think I've actually encountered much hostility towards Connor, but I've heard rumors.

I totally forgot about "Cordelia"/Connor! I have definitely gotten the impression that fandom is not a fan of that particular ship.

I didn't like Buffy/Angel in the first three seasons for a few reasons. I tend to be more annoyed than charmed by over-the-top adolescent romance, especially when the romance in question is an over-the-top adolescent romance where one party is not, in fact, an adolescent. And I can't see the chemistry between Gellar and Boreanaz, so I found their scenes together very tedious. I also didn't like Angel's stalking--and then I became a Buffy/Spike shipper and decided that people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

But after Angel and Buffy broke up I warmed up to them. I'm not entirely sure why. I think it's just because I have a soft spot for stories about exes who still have affection for each other. I didn't really like "I Will Remember You", but I remember watching "The Yoko Factor", and realizing that I liked their dynamic as exes.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Re: Spike on AtS - I think the response is even more divided than on BtVS. For every fan who only watched AtS because Spike joined, there were fans who quit watching because he joined, seeing it as the ultimate sell out (I regretted this in the case of a few fanfic writers whose work I had enjoyed), and then there were the branch of Spike fans who regarded him as ooc on AtS. (Me, I liked AtS Spike quite a bit, but I must admit I was annoyed by some of the fans who watched only for him and had no idea about the AtS dynamics and history.)

And yes, my guy Connor was and is the most hated character around. Fred used to be hated, but Illyria changed this somewhat, not least because the character stopped the Amy bashing and started some actress appreciation.

[itsnotmymind.livejournal.com]

I think it made sense to bring Spike over to AtS, considering his history with Angel (I really wish Drusilla had showed up that season. They could have done interesting things with her.). But given how Spike does seem to dominate fannish discussions, I can see how someone who was watching and involved with the fandom at the time but have wished that he hadn't joined the cast.

I'm not sure if I've actually encountered Connor hate, although I've heard rumors of it. I never got the appeal of Illyria, but she does prove that Amy Acker has range.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Oh, it definitely made sense (and agreed about Drusilla, esoecially given fhey had Juliet Landau available given her presence in the flashbacks). And I loved the Spike and Angel scenes together, both the silly ("I like your poetry"/YOU like Barry Manilow") and the sublime ("So were we, once upon a time"). Plus I would say episodes like "Damage" manage something that s7 episodes like "Lies my mother told me" did not in terms of souled Spike confronting what he was, and Spike's poetry reading in "Not Fade Away" was a terrific way to wrap the character up. From the moment Spike's dramatic reappearance was punctured by Harmony's "Blondie Bear?", I was sure it had been the right decision (I was cautiously optimistic before). But could I understand the occasional "could we talk about something/someone other than Spike?" in terms of fannish discussion? Yes, that, too.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Forgot to say about Fred and AA: in my memory, and bear in mind fhis was years ago, it went down thusly at the message boards, mailing lists and new lj world:

- what is she doing on the show?
- she's coming between the Wes/ Gunn bromance/also Amy Acker can't act/has no chemistry with anyone
- she's coming between the Wes/Lilah noirmance/ insults about AAs looks and acting ability increased
- um. Illyria's sort of cool. Also she's got chemistry with Wesley. Therefore, AA obv. can act
- *special insert for watchers of season 5 of Alias: AA cool as female villain in same wins a few Joss independent fans*
- years pass, Dollhouse happens. All of a sudden:
- wow. Amy Acker is a way better actress than Eliza Dushku. Joss picked the wrong actress to carry the show.

My own take on Fred was that I was neutral to disinterested until s4 when I really grew to like her and never stopped, though she never became a favourite. I just liked her. Didn't ship her with anyone, though, which isn't unusual for me, as I don't ship many characters. Illyria was great in a mythic way, and I liked that in a sad and eerie fashion, this was when Wesley finally succeeded as a Watcher. And among the many problems of Dollhouse was the revelation that ED is something of a one trick pony and AA is far more versatile, yes, but that has no bearing on either of their previously played characters.

[itsnotmymind.livejournal.com]

I found the endless love triangles Fred was involved in to be boring and tedious, even by the standards of the genre. I like love triangles better in theory and in practice. (One day, I will find a fictional love triangle as fascinating as McCartney/Lennon/Ono, but until then I guess will have to stick to real life for great love triangles.) I liked her well enough in Supersymmetry and the Jasmine arc when she had something to do that didn't involve unimaginative love triangles, but that didn't happen very often.

I feel like I would have a more solid opinion of Illyria if we'd gotten another season of her. I did like what she brought out in Wesley, but as a character herself, I just didn't get her.

[local-max.livejournal.com]

One day, I will find a fictional love triangle as fascinating as McCartney/Lennon/Ono, but until then I guess will have to stick to real life for great love triangles.

lol, yes yes yes.

(sorry, more on these posts later)

[itsnotmymind.livejournal.com]

:)