Why Buffy didn't tell the Scoobies
Nov. 20th, 2011 09:43 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
itsnotmymind*Warning for non-explicit discussion of Buffy and Spike's S6 relationship*
I've often heard fans complain that Buffy didn't tell the other Scoobies about how she had treated Spike in S6, even though they knew about a lot of Spike's bad behavior towards her (the stalking in S5 and the attempted rape in "Seeing Red"). I have some not-entirely-coherent thoughts on the matter that don't quite constitute an defense, mainly because I don't disagree with this complaint. I merely think that many of the complaints are overblown. I think Buffy should have told the Scoobies, for her own benefit as much as Spike's. I don't think it was fair that the Scoobies only knew the parts of the story that made Spike look bad. That said, given how much effort she put into making it up to Spike how badly she treated him, I'm not too upset about it (She certainly was a lot better about Spike in S7 then he was in AtS S5 when he encountered the soulless vampire that he had used and abused, but I digress). But still, I have thoughts that might make up a quasi-defense.
First of all, I'm not sure that telling the Scoobies about Buffy's bad behavior would have benefited Spike very much. Sadly, I'm not entirely sure that the Scoobies would have cared how Buffy treated Spike in S6. I remember what Faith said in “Faith, Hope, and Trick”: “[I]f doing violence to vampires upsets you, I think you're in the wrong line of work!” (Buffy argues with a lot of the things Faith says, but not that one.) I really can’t imagine Xander (who almost killed Spike in “Entropy”, after fighting by his side many times, just because Spike slept with Anya) or Giles (who tried to have Spike killed after he got the soul) caring much about how Buffy treated her soulless vampire lover. At best, it might cause them to worry about Buffy, but given that the Scoobies looked the other way when Buffy displayed other symptoms of not being mentally all there in S6 (not mention the non-reaction to her attempt to kill Faith back in S3), I'm not even sure they would do that. Now, Willow might have more sympathy for Spike, but Willow also has really warped ideas about appropriate behavior in romantic relationships. I wonder if she would understand how wrong Buffy beating Spike up in an alley was.
The only one I could imagine really getting it and caring would be Dawn. I’ve always thought that Dawn would have a harder time forgiving Spike for the attempted rape than Buffy, because Dawn had a rosy-eyed view of Spike. He was Her Hero. Buffy never really had any illusions about the vampire who promised to kill her the first time they met, but Dawn looked up to Spike. I wonder if knowing that the abuse went both ways in that relationship would make a difference to her.
Another thing to keep in mind is that the only reason any of the other Scoobies knew about the attempted rape was because Xander barged in on Buffy right after it happened and figured most of it out from what he saw. Buffy lied to Willow when she came into the bathroom, and said that nothing had happened. When Xander started to bring it up in front of Dawn, later, Buffy pulled him into the other room. Dawn only found out about it because Xander told her when Buffy wasn’t around, even though it was obvious that Buffy didn’t want Dawn to know. If any of the other Scoobies know, it wasn't made explicit to the viewers.
Buffy did try to keep her friends from finding out about the attempted rape. It seems that as far as Buffy is concerned, what happens between her and Spike stays between her and Spike, whether it’s his bad behavior, or hers.
One last thing: Buffy is very bad at articulating her relationship with Spike. The words “complicated” and “confusing” come up when she tries. The one time she brought up the rape attempt directly to Spike, she said, “I don’t have the words,” which seems to apply to their relationship in general. Buffy seems to have difficulty articulating her relationship with Spike even to Spike. In “Seeing Red”, when Spike asks her why she didn’t let Xander kill him, Buffy says, “You know why.” Spike doesn’t, but Buffy thinks he understands what she can’t say.
I've often heard fans complain that Buffy didn't tell the other Scoobies about how she had treated Spike in S6, even though they knew about a lot of Spike's bad behavior towards her (the stalking in S5 and the attempted rape in "Seeing Red"). I have some not-entirely-coherent thoughts on the matter that don't quite constitute an defense, mainly because I don't disagree with this complaint. I merely think that many of the complaints are overblown. I think Buffy should have told the Scoobies, for her own benefit as much as Spike's. I don't think it was fair that the Scoobies only knew the parts of the story that made Spike look bad. That said, given how much effort she put into making it up to Spike how badly she treated him, I'm not too upset about it (She certainly was a lot better about Spike in S7 then he was in AtS S5 when he encountered the soulless vampire that he had used and abused, but I digress). But still, I have thoughts that might make up a quasi-defense.
First of all, I'm not sure that telling the Scoobies about Buffy's bad behavior would have benefited Spike very much. Sadly, I'm not entirely sure that the Scoobies would have cared how Buffy treated Spike in S6. I remember what Faith said in “Faith, Hope, and Trick”: “[I]f doing violence to vampires upsets you, I think you're in the wrong line of work!” (Buffy argues with a lot of the things Faith says, but not that one.) I really can’t imagine Xander (who almost killed Spike in “Entropy”, after fighting by his side many times, just because Spike slept with Anya) or Giles (who tried to have Spike killed after he got the soul) caring much about how Buffy treated her soulless vampire lover. At best, it might cause them to worry about Buffy, but given that the Scoobies looked the other way when Buffy displayed other symptoms of not being mentally all there in S6 (not mention the non-reaction to her attempt to kill Faith back in S3), I'm not even sure they would do that. Now, Willow might have more sympathy for Spike, but Willow also has really warped ideas about appropriate behavior in romantic relationships. I wonder if she would understand how wrong Buffy beating Spike up in an alley was.
The only one I could imagine really getting it and caring would be Dawn. I’ve always thought that Dawn would have a harder time forgiving Spike for the attempted rape than Buffy, because Dawn had a rosy-eyed view of Spike. He was Her Hero. Buffy never really had any illusions about the vampire who promised to kill her the first time they met, but Dawn looked up to Spike. I wonder if knowing that the abuse went both ways in that relationship would make a difference to her.
Another thing to keep in mind is that the only reason any of the other Scoobies knew about the attempted rape was because Xander barged in on Buffy right after it happened and figured most of it out from what he saw. Buffy lied to Willow when she came into the bathroom, and said that nothing had happened. When Xander started to bring it up in front of Dawn, later, Buffy pulled him into the other room. Dawn only found out about it because Xander told her when Buffy wasn’t around, even though it was obvious that Buffy didn’t want Dawn to know. If any of the other Scoobies know, it wasn't made explicit to the viewers.
Buffy did try to keep her friends from finding out about the attempted rape. It seems that as far as Buffy is concerned, what happens between her and Spike stays between her and Spike, whether it’s his bad behavior, or hers.
One last thing: Buffy is very bad at articulating her relationship with Spike. The words “complicated” and “confusing” come up when she tries. The one time she brought up the rape attempt directly to Spike, she said, “I don’t have the words,” which seems to apply to their relationship in general. Buffy seems to have difficulty articulating her relationship with Spike even to Spike. In “Seeing Red”, when Spike asks her why she didn’t let Xander kill him, Buffy says, “You know why.” Spike doesn’t, but Buffy thinks he understands what she can’t say.
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no subject
Date: 2011-11-30 12:55 am (UTC)I've recently had a debate with one very Spike-centric, Buffy-hating fan who was all outraged that Buffy told Giles that she was sleeping with Spike, expecting him to be shocked, rather than that she was treating Spike badly?! Can you imagine Buffy saying "oh and... I've been treating Spike badly" and Giles being shocked about that?
I also think she always wanted to keep her relationship with Spike private. Although there are a few lines from original scripts that didn't make it into the episodes and that are interesting in that context.
From Conversations with Dead People: (edited lines underlined)
BUFFY
The relationships, I know it's not
their fault. I'm not really sure how
they put up with me. The last guy I
was with, it got really... I behaved
like a monster. Treated him like...
and at the same time I let him just
take me over, do things to me that...
if anyone knew what really went on
between us, they'd never look at me
again.
HOLDEN
I think they would.
BUFFY
You don't know.
HOLDEN
And you don't either... 'til you tell
someone.
BUFFY
I couldn't...
This suggests that she couldn't talk to anyone about the details of her relationship with Spike out of shame. Her feeling that people would be disgusted with her seems to be more about how she feels about herself. She also thought they wouldn't look at her again if they just knew she was sleeping with Spike, and their reactions weren't anywhere that harsh - even Xander got over it.
I still think that the main reason she wanted to keep it all to herself is that she didn't feel they would understand.
But there's also an extended version of the conversation with Dawn in Him that suggests she talked at least a bit about it.
DAWN
(sincere)
No. I'm trying to understand. I
mean, nothing makes sense. First you
say Spike disgusts you but, secretly,
you two are doing it like bunnies.
And Spike says he'd die for you, but
he tries to rape you.
(then/hesitant)
And I'm even trying to understand
that. A little. The rape part.
BUFFY
He didn't. I mean, he tried-
DAWN
Not that. I just... You guys had
sex a lot, right? It's not like you
were strangers. Weren't you ever...
(hard to say)
... being kind of rough with each
other?
(off Buffy's look)
Anya said some stuff-
BUFFY
I really should've killed her. Dawn,
it was complicated. But I'd broken
it off with him. I didn't want to
anymore.
DAWN
(gets it)
Oh. Oh... That must have been...
(then)
I'm sorry. I'm sorry for even asking.
BUFFY
It's okay. I get the question. I've
asked it myself a few times.
(then)
For the record? Spike knew how wrong
it was. That's why he went away.
DAWN
To get a soul? Like that's going to
make him a better man? Xander had a
soul when he stood Anya up at the
alter. And now he says he still
wants her.
(then)
You know, I don't think it's the
school basement that makes people
crazy.
BUFFY
I wish I had better answers. Or ones
with big words you couldn't really
follow.
DAWN
It's just... it seems kind of...
exhausting.
BUFFY
(smiles)
It truly is.
(Well, that explains Dawn's line "you've had sex that's rough" in a later scene - I always thought it must have been odd if she was discussing her sex life with Spike with her little sister!)
no subject
Date: 2011-11-30 03:03 pm (UTC)I'm sure the Scoobies would have forgiven Buffy, which is part of why I wish she had told them. She could have seen that it was forgivable.
I have seen those shooting scripts before, but thanks for reminding me of them. I wish all of the CwDP stuff had appeared in the final episode, but I guess they didn't have time. The Him transcript mostly makes me wonder how Anya knew about Buffy and Spike's sex life. I guess Spike must have told her.
no subject
Date: 2011-11-30 03:26 pm (UTC)